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| Indochino Vincero Collection The Vincero Navy Blue & White Pinstripe Suit, 649$ |
Indochino is constantly changing and in many cases, improving. Advanced options have been reworked (photos of the options are now available) and simplified (higher armholes became standard), their much-discussed shoulder construction has been upgraded (now lightly padded shoulders).
They have also completely changed their prices and sales strategy. Just a year ago you could get 20% off an Indochino suit plus 2 free shirts. Today, there are almost no coupons (just some small official sales) and prices have increased significantly. I remember when you could get the suits for 299$ after using a coupon - now their monthly collections cost significantly more. This has surely left many former customers disappointed and looking for bargains elsewhere - StudioSuits.com comes to mind, I actually have a review coming up within the next weeks.
The reasons of the change in strategy and price increases are manifold. First of all, Indochino has been growing quickly and now wants to start making profits and grow into a strong brand, not depending on short-term sales initiatives using coupons and discounts. Furthermore, cotton prices have been increasing significantly over the last year, thus negatively affecting profit margins. Indochino has actually raised prices for blazers and some basic suits by around 30$.
Today's new suits, titled the Vincero Collection, are yet another step in a higher price category. Prices start at 649$, this has been unheard of before - the most expensive 3-piece suit even sells for 829$. However, this is not all without reason. Quite on the contrary, today new suits stand out like no other collection before. Read on below for more info.
There has been the recent pants collection with higher priced Italian fabrics (at the same time, prices of their basic pants actually increased too), the Vincero Collection is a logical next step. When the first rumors of the Vincero Collection spread around the Internet (see my story on it here), we didn't know many of the details.
There has been the recent pants collection with higher priced Italian fabrics (at the same time, prices of their basic pants actually increased too), the Vincero Collection is a logical next step. When the first rumors of the Vincero Collection spread around the Internet (see my story on it here), we didn't know many of the details.
Here is what makes the new suits truly special and still worth a consideration at 650$ (or more):
- high quality Italian Reda fabrics
Reda is an Italian company, producing high-quality fabrics for many top brands.
Read more in this short case study. - Bemberg linings
considered the best lining for suits (some say even better than silk). It's nice to the touch and most importantly, very breathable - BWF collar felts
produces for most top-market suits
In addition, there is now finally detailed information on the fabrics, such as the weight and composition incl. descriptions. They have even go so far to indicate a 0,4% polyester content that is used for the pinstripes. I assume this kind of information is easily available for Reda fabrics, in contrary to no-name fabrics sourced from Chinese mills.
The Indochino Logo has also been slightly updated, now featuring a grey or white (for Twitter/FB) background with "Indochino Custom" written on it. I prefer that one to the overly flashy golden look.
All in all, 8 new suits have been introduced. There are great fabrics and designs - from pinstripes to plaids. The Light Grey Herringbone Three-Piece is the most expensive piece of the collection at 829$. That surely is quite the price for online MTM - but the suit does look exclusive with peak notch lapels on both the suit and the vest and if you want Reda fabrics, you have to be prepared to pay for it.
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| Indochino Vincero Light Grey Herringbone Three-Piece Suit, 829$ |
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| Indochino Vincero Charcoal Plaid Suit, 729$ |
The Vincero Charcoal Plaid pictured above is one of my favorites, very versatile, yet with a twist that makes it stand out. I like those suits that may just seem solid colored from the distance, but reveal their finesse at closer distance.
The Ultimate Grey Suit's rich cousin, the Vincero Light Grey Suit (799$) is another fine suit, just like the Light Grey Plaid suit, at 629$ one of the cheaper ones.
The only thing I am missing a bit are some more solid colours - brown, navy blue, charcoal - but I you can't have it all and next Tuesday is coming up soon.
So, I think overall the suits look great. There is no doubt the fabrics are fantastic, so are the lining and the collar felts. The only very important thing they have to get right now is consistency.
Update: See my review of the Charcoal Plaid here: http://www.indochino-review.com/2012/03/indochino-review-vincero-charcoal-plaid.html
The Ultimate Grey Suit's rich cousin, the Vincero Light Grey Suit (799$) is another fine suit, just like the Light Grey Plaid suit, at 629$ one of the cheaper ones.
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| Vincero Light Grey Three-Piece Suit, 799$ |
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| Vincero Light Gray Plaid Suit, 629$ - a bargain? |
So, I think overall the suits look great. There is no doubt the fabrics are fantastic, so are the lining and the collar felts. The only very important thing they have to get right now is consistency.
I know this is not very flattering for Indochino, but I want to be honest here. If you finally get the perfect measurements for your Indochino suit (and that already can be a stony path), it has to be 100% guaranteed to have the exact same fit on your next suit. This is especially important if the suit costs 650$ and not 299$.
You can expect a customer to go to a tailor or for a remake on his first suit, but then it just has to work or many will not consider it worth the hassle. I experience it a bit on my suits - I want to have sleeve cuffs with 7", yet it seems to get changed to 9" constantly, I also had some troubles with the fit of their pants recently. Obviously, there is that 100% fit guarantee and their very forthcoming customer service aka Angie, but that still leaves you with the hassle to go to a tailor or for a rework. Of course you can never eliminate all errors, but if they manage to get those quirks ironed out, there is hardly a reason to look anywhere else for suits.
How do you feel about the Vincero Collection - will you spend 650$+ for an Indochino suit or are they coming close to a price range where you might as well just visit a local tailor? Curious to hear what you guys are thinking!
You can expect a customer to go to a tailor or for a remake on his first suit, but then it just has to work or many will not consider it worth the hassle. I experience it a bit on my suits - I want to have sleeve cuffs with 7", yet it seems to get changed to 9" constantly, I also had some troubles with the fit of their pants recently. Obviously, there is that 100% fit guarantee and their very forthcoming customer service aka Angie, but that still leaves you with the hassle to go to a tailor or for a rework. Of course you can never eliminate all errors, but if they manage to get those quirks ironed out, there is hardly a reason to look anywhere else for suits.
How do you feel about the Vincero Collection - will you spend 650$+ for an Indochino suit or are they coming close to a price range where you might as well just visit a local tailor? Curious to hear what you guys are thinking!
36 comments:
Your comments are right on the mark. The price point is high, but still reasonable for first quality fabics on a MTM suit. Customer service has been excellent in my experience, but the hardest part (and I am sure that his is frustrating from IC's point of view) is getting the measurements right. And sometime when a suite is not quire right the first time, I don't know whether I measured wrong or IC's tailors messed up. I'll keep trying because of the customer service and reasonable prices.
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I agree with Richard as regards the customer service and keeping trying for the fabrics/price. It's a good price. Here's the problem I see: yeah, I'd like MTM because it theoretically fits my body. Maybe not for $629 (though some of the cheapest here in Vienna work out to those prices) but for $700-800 I can get a Hugo Boss suit OTR that I know is going to fit me pretty well, have a good name, good fabric, and good tailoring, and I can get a tailor from the store to make the necessary alterations for free. As both Lorenz and Richard have pointed out, it kind of comes down to hassle. I've now ordered a shirt (first order), a three piece grey (second order that didn't fit and had to be sent back, partially my fault, partially it just didn't work), and now I've got a charcoal coming. If the charcoal doesn't fit well enough to be fixed by a local tailor, I'd be a bit worried about dropping another $300-400, and certainly about $600-800...
Oh also, I agree about the solid colors. As a young man trying to build a wardrobe, as much as I love some of the more interesting, more flashy suits they have, I've promised myself to build a wardrobe of black, charcoal, grey, navy, and potentially chocolate before going down this road. I've got the black, charcoal, and grey, now, but Indochino's regular navy suit is just too dark for my tastes, and it seems like nobody, MTM, OTR, etc. is making solid chocolate suits these days...
This much for a half-canvassed suit made with fusible tape? Nah, pass. $350-400 is a good range for them, but once you start talking about $650-800+, realize you can get FULLY canvassed suits, made with Italian or British fabrics and which are not made in Shanghai by tailors incapable of reading measurements correctly, on sale at major high-end stores.
Have any of you actually dissected an Indochino suit? I have. The inside is a ridiculous patchwork of thin canvas, the floating chest piece, and fusible tape (TAPE, the cheap kind you can get at a craft store) on seams where they should just have stitched the lining. Most half-canvassed suits at this price range (like Brooks Brothers) have much cleaner tailoring and dispense with the tape in favor of real stitches. In fact, you can get two properly half-canvassed suits from Brooks Brothers for $400-500 at any of their regular sales. Try the Milano cut, which is very slim.
Indochino has a great product at $350-400, maybe a little more. But you'd be crazy to blow closer to a grand on a half-canvassed suit made in China.
This is an eye-catching collection because of the style, fabric quality and price! Although I am impressed by this collection, I have serious reservations about spending $679-$829 on an Indochino suit, especially when there are consistent concerns about their quality control and suit construction (see Sartorialists post below).
I do have to give Indochino credit, this is an ambitious move on their part.But I'm also a bit surprised that they made it. It does seem like reach to introduce a new line that is $150- $300 more expensive than your previous most expensive suit.
Perhaps this is a very limited release to test customer demand for higher-end suits? Only time will tell.
The construction of the suit did not change. My tailor always harshly criticized their quality, but at the lower price point with their perfect fit guarantee it still made sense to me. Not anymore. At this price point, I am definitely not prepared to deal with remakes, high possibility of them running out of fabric for a remake (they probably bought small batches), etc.
Actually, I did not mind a chinese wool fabric, as long as it is decent quality, and they remained within a reasonable price range.Below $400 they were a great option for a 100% wool suit, $400-$500 --not as good, but may be worth some consideration, and over $600 -- they are irrelevant. I agree with the others, one must be crazy to buy a chinese on-line MTM suit for this much. But, having said that, with a good sale and some free shirts, I may change my mind
I wouldn't touch this even if I had made a few orders and had my sizing down with precision. Why? Just as you mentioned, their inconsistencies in sizing is a huge deterrent. Why can't they just focus on increasing their quality and then focus on other areas?
I'm looking for a good quality suit and am more than happy to spend that money however I want a solid color (charcoal or navy), good construction and a fit guarantee.
I'm a bit worried that I would get that.
Hello,
Indochino had a spendid pinstripe dark chocolate suit back in 2009 (and for less than 400$), but I'm with you on this : it's incredibly hard to find a nice chocolate / dark brown suit, even OTR.
I have heard some controversial things about their suit construction. I will bring one to a top tailor for examination in a few days, for an upcoming review. I am curious what he will say & will of course share the info!
I am with you gents. I think IC is drifting away from its core. I like the concept of higer end offerings but they would be better as limited releases that pop in here and there. I cant see the mass appeal of a +600 usd colleciton. If I am going to inch toward the 1k price point I too am unwilling to do the requiste remake/tailor dance. And if we (the repeat customers) dont bite on said high end collection is it reasonable to think an IC virgin would plop this cash on thier inagural suit? Far fetched IMO.
And I also liked their previous materials and offerings better in some cases. The Ultimate Grey for example may be a technically inferior fabric to those value specsmanship but its one of the best moving, best looking fabrics I have seen at any price. Who want to brag that they have the highest quality suit made in China anyway?
I think they are trying to grow the business the wrong way. I don't need/want shoes (rumored) from IC, sweaters (rumored), or 800 dollar suits. I need a bankable consistent fit & quality. I need more wardrobe foundation type suits & tux choices at reasonable prices. I need more hetero shirt choices. And its September - where the F is the outerwear? Some great choices last spring were silently reduced to one trench option for the past few months. Was I supposed to stock up for fall at the end of spring? Senseless. Same thing seems to be happening to the Tux selection BTW. Boo
You make a good point about suit construction. But I am not sure that even $1000 OTR suits have all of the elements that you describe, even at Brooks Brothers.
What I like about IC is custom size and custom fit. Unfortunately, most OTR suits don't fit me well around the shoulders and none (except the expensive Italian suits which are cut too slim for me) have high arm holes. I take my OTR purchases to my tailor who tries to make them fit, but in the end a jacket remake adds considerably to the cost, not to mention the long wait for the work to be completed.
IC offers a great solution with its custom features and custom fit. And, when they offer it, the two-week delivery can't be beat, since I have to beg me tailor to finish just routine alterations in that time.
As for price, I hope that IC continues to offer a range of suitings - both its Chinese fabrics, which I find quite satisfactory, as well as the finer choices. In the Midwest (US), expect to pay $600 and up for an Italian or fine English woolen, plus sales tax plus alterations. (I don't know about other countries, but in the US, the stores do not offer free alterations. They used to do so for men but not for women. Since both sexes must be treated equally, they deny free alterations to all. And as long as I am digressing, avoid store alterations. Most store fitters only look at the sleeve and trouser length, but a good independent tailor will look at the overall fit and make the necessary adjustments to make it a better looking fit.) So even at the new elevated levels, the prices (although I would rather pay less) are still attractive.
good points RichardFF. One thing we must not forget - the Vincero is only a temporary collection, the basic suits are still very affordable. It's a bit like that in the car industry too - you got to have that expensive, shiny car to show you can do that - but at the end, people buy the affordable version.
All I want to know is: Who is buying these suits at this pricepoint? WHO?
Agree with pretty much all the comments here.. I've concluded that the Vincero Collection is really just there to make their core collection look that much more affordable. Good move, really.
Either way though, it sounds like they've still got a lot of work to do on their fit accuracy. Seems I'm not the only one that had to go through a pretty crazy process to finally get my fitted suit. It finally came, and customer service was great about it, but it took a bit more time and energy than I was hoping to spend (and more than I think I'm willing to spend again).
Sounds like I'm not alone.. what do you gents figure their percentages are on tailoring and re-makes? Got to pretty high..
Put it this way: having dissected an Indochino suit, I can say that I don't mind paying $350, even $400--even $450 if the fabric is decent. Those who insist that the quality of construction beats, or is even equal to, a Brooks Brothers Milano or Madison suit or another mainstream suit at that price point (which, on sale, can be had for $500 or less) don't have a clue. To call Indochino suits "half-canvassed" is really a stretch: have any trained suit tailor open it up and compare it side-by-side to a properly half-canvassed suit (Brooks, Hickey, etc.), and listen carefully.
I'm not knocking IC... for $379, an online MTM suit with touchable fabric (construction be damned) and custom measurements, and free delivery, is great. Praise IC for bringing this business model forward.
It's when they start coming out with $800-range suits that astonishes. If you've got a grand to spend, you can go to a bespoke tailor and have a custom suit, half-canvassed and with decent fabric choices, that will fit exactly how you want and with guaranteed alterations for life.
I've ordered just one suit from IC, the Navy Linen suit which apparently was pretty popular, back in May. While I messed up on a couple of measurements with the pants the suit fit exactly how it was supposed to for the most part, but after just three wears the stitching on the lining was faulty and while it's wearable/not noticeable to anyone but me (and I've yet to get it fixed) it just brings some questions to mind.
I thought the IC business model of offering MTM suits for extremely competitive prices was brilliant, and would continue to be. It's my personal philosophy that a business is a business to make money, and obviously with this new collection and most of their recent collections that they obviously weren't producing the kind of profits they'd have liked to be producing. While my suit was linen, hardly an expensive fabric, I can't really speak about construction of a more traditional suit, but at $650, you kind of wonder, "what's the point of this?"
It's been said, but you can get a Hugo Boss suit for $700 at several places, have it tailored to exact specifications for 0 dollars, and KNOW that what your getting is a quality product from a quality label. I'm 6'4" and relatively athletic, OTR suits typically fit me nicely before tailoring, why should I pay $800 for a MTM suit when I can get two nice, functional suits OTR for the same price?
I'd suggest that Indochino needs to make sure it's keeping collections that are in the $350-$550 range. Otherwise they're losing an interested customer. Who knows, maybe their research has shown that becoming a label all their own is the right way to go.
Suggest checking Lorenz's survey on this site for some relvant stats that hold true to my personal experience
I agree. This is probably a very limited collection that is designed to generate PR, guage demand for higher-end products and make their less expensive clothes more desirable.
It's fine if they release more expensive suits, as long as its done in conjunction with the less expensive suits that we've been used to.
They should call these suits The Kenny Rogers Collection. Only a hardcore gambler would take his chances.
I've ordered two suits from IC. The first needed two remakes (three total attempts including the initial delivery). And then because my second suit needed its second remake (again, three total attempts), I said "no thanks", sent it back, got my refund (after I dropped $30+ for shipping). The first suit took a few attempts, I figured it was ICs growing pains and I was lured by a $99 off coupon, so I stuck with it and eventually got a well fitting suit with quality that met the price of about $250. The suit however seems to be on constant death watch as its construction just doesn't seem to be up to any normal wear and tare. The second suit, even at $369, was a joke. Hmm. that's odd, the measurements were the same as the last suit, which seemed to come in ok. But it was way oversized and comically asymmetrical (I have photos) to the point that if any one ever just looked at the thing before they sent it out the door, they couldn't NOT see that it was off. It was like they cut a 42R and a 38S each in half, joined the halves together and then mailed it to me. Where was the quality control on that one? Seriously? Who could have picked this up in his/her hands and said "Fine work guys! This one's good to go. Ship it." So the remake came in. This time, it was too small. Anyway, I followed the simplistic instructions to ensure my measurements were precise. The next remake came back, again, asymmetric and oversized. Let's keep in mind that my body type is by all means average.And only thing consistent about the suits were the following; the scotch tape or lining, or whatever, was bumpy and unavoidably visible on the front of the jacket. Not to mention, whatever IC uses for lining makes a very audible crinkling noise. It's like they stuff potato chip bags in there. As for the functioning buttonholes, they're frayed and ripped. They obviously didn't sow these buttonholes, so it's as if IC just takes normal OTR fake buttonholes and cuts them open with scissors. The result is cheap and anything but elegant. I can get a well fitting Italian designed and made suit of quality wool and lining for between $200-$300 (I know where to look). I spend upwards of $50 on alterations. Done. IC had the promise of suits that fit even better at a comparable price, but while sacrificing quality (made in China, questionable wool sourcing, scotch tape, etc). Many of us were willing to trade quality for a better fit. But now IC wants us to pay over twice as much for dubious results. IC needs to focus on getting the $300 suits consistently right, secure its reputation, then, and only then, ask us to jump into the deep end with it.I can't wait to hear the reviews.
Quite the ordeal... I am glad that never happened to me to such an extend!
All 4 of my Indochino suits have functional buttonholes and I've never had a problem. Strange.
There has been a lot of talk about these suits being too expensive for their construction quality. Does anyone know for sure that this new line does not have any improvement in construction quality? Obviously if there are major improvements and Indochino isn't mentioning them in their descriptions then they're nuts, but maybe someone should inquire.
Should be easy enough to find out. However, you are right to assume they would have announced it. They keep rather quiet about the whole topic (no info on their website)
The vests on the gray suits are notch, according to the photos -- not peak. Though, that they have lapels at all is a great step, in my opinion. I'd <3 a double-breasted version someday.
Thank you for pointing that out, will correct it in the article. Would love a double-breasted version myself - not sure if I would ever dare wearing it or if it could pull it off, but it'd be fun!
But are the buttonholes on your jackets sewn properly, or are they just slits cut into stitching of nonfunctional holes.
There was a comment today on their FB wall about suit construction. All suits have their unique construction.
I'm amazed that the comments here aren't a little more positive. I ordered the charcoal three piece and it fit perfectly the first time. I don't mean that it was just "good enough", either. I literally took it to my tailor to ask him if any of the measurements were even a quarter inch off - they weren't.
I'm wearing Hugo Boss shoes right now, but I won't wear their suits. I won't wear Brooks Brothers either (I'm not a fan of American clothing). You can be a construction snob if you want, but when it comes to fit, I don't think there's a comparable OTR option (Tom Ford may be the exception, but I've never tried one on). Until I'm ready to step up to Ermenegildo Zegna's MTM program, Indochino seems like the best bet.
It's just that it seems all so random ! My first suit ordered from them back in 2009 was absolutely perfect out of the box, and I'm still wearing it today, the fabric kept the distance remarkably well.
But when I ordered my last suit one month ago, with exactly the same measurements as in 2009, it came out with a strange baggy fit, really ill cut and with big tailoring mistakes (that's the word my local tailor used to describe the result).
The remake seems to be more accurate, even if it feels a bit tight and needs reworking.
The overall feeling of this is that it's not really predictable, which is annoying for a 600 $ ++ suit, that needs shipping back to China every once and then.
I agree with Elie here. I don't think the construction is that important either, but consistency should be guaranteed.
Would anyone who's purchased one of the Vincero suits share his thoughts with us about it?
I ordered the fabric swatches for all the suits in the Vincero collection. IMO the fabrics for the light grey three piece, light grey herringbone and light grey plaid stand out the best. All three are very striking.
The light grey plaid look different up close - the blue stripes look distinct up close but are harder to see in the picture. That's probably the case with most plaid fabrics but its cool to note the different appearance up close.
I have two coworkers that bought here but they just dont look right. I'm a loyal return buyer of Z zegna suits and have had about 8 of them. They fit me great as they are slim cut and great material.
That being said, I need a spring/summer suit(like the 3 piece grey at 799) for a wedding in Jan. Would you recommend me to:
1) just go pick up OTR Z Zegna or equivilant for 600-1000
2) buy from IC 3 piece grey at 799
3) I'm actually going to be in China next week, 3days in HK,3 days in Shanghai, should I pick up a MTM suit there? Do you guys have any recommendations for HK and Shanghai?
Let me know what you would do.
It is quite some years until January, so if you have some time and patience, you can just get an Indo suit and see how it works out for you. In the worst case you can always get a refund and buy an OTR Zegna afterwards. Not sure about buying directly in China, I don't personally know any tailors there.
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